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Post by ravenbrighid on Mar 22, 2019 3:47:40 GMT
Hey all,
So I've been struggling with how to make my edits more likely to finish up their matches or to use within the match a C2C or corner move. So like, examples of edits this might be important for are Orton ("vintage" DDT), Shinsuke (Kinshasa), Ciampa (Rope hanging DDT as a match ender)....really anyone I want to more regularly use corner or C2C moves. It's especially hard with someone like Orton who you both want hitting, say Vintage DDT and the superplex. Any advice on ways to do logic or other things so these moves actually show up more regularly?
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Post by Senator Phillips on Mar 22, 2019 4:31:21 GMT
Increase logic to the front facelock drag, that's the #1 thing I recommend, as it lines the opponent up for C2C and for whips to the corner.
For C2C, two basic front grapple moves that can drastically increase your chances are the short arm lariat and short elbow(knockdown version). Set either one of those in large damage(not small+medium) and they'll have a good chance of setting up the C2C.
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Post by OrochiGeese on Mar 22, 2019 6:35:59 GMT
100% echo'ing Senator on high percentage for R Trigger for purposes of lining up your opponent with the corner for irish whips. I ran a number of tests a few months ago on seeing whether certain corner moves would properly pin (or get rope breaks) and testing was annoying (cause I wasn't getting enough irish whips to the corner) until I realized that the R Trigger was a shortcut to getting irish whips to the corner every time.
High showmanship will also cause your irish whips to target the corners when possible (or throwing to the outside when near the ropes). Lower showmanship will target throwing to the ropes (for running/run counter moves).
As for C2C moves, most standing strike moves that send the opponent down without your wrestler going down are helpful. You want them in the O slots. That means that moveset placement is really important. If you have pins or submissions or impact pins (like a powerbomb), don't stick them in all of your O slots. You need a reliable way to get your opponent up dizzy for the C2C and that means O moves that keep your opponent standing and ready. The second rope superplex from the corner is a good move to set up a C2C as is the Super K combo but that got SOOO overused as a C2C set-up move in FPR (including by edits that had no business doing it!) and i can't even look at it anymore as a result, LOL.
Too extra considerations: Make sure your wrestler is quick enough to get to the corner AND that they aren't prone to running out of breath. (high enough discretion will force them to breathe).
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Post by view619 on Mar 22, 2019 12:18:59 GMT
Higher face lock logic percentages, Discretion at 50 percent for the center positioning, setting the c2c move to high percentages and using a basic move that keeps the opponent in the center of the ring (knee strike, toe kick) are your best chances for triggering the conditions that allow the ai to go for c2c moves.
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Post by mur96 on Mar 22, 2019 13:44:17 GMT
Guys I respond for the OP, this is some really useful information. But I have a similar question for logic. What about slingshot to inside moves? Like the AJ Styles' elbow?
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Post by Senator Phillips on Mar 22, 2019 13:58:55 GMT
Guys I respond for the OP, this is some really useful information. But I have a similar question for logic. What about slingshot to inside moves? Like the AJ Styles' elbow? Those...are a different matter. It's somewhat tough to get them with any consistency without overdoing the percents. I'd just make sure to set reasonably high percents to them, have reliable knockdown moves in large damage and hope for the best. Really wish there were priority options for the apron springboard/slingshot moves. |
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Post by Dawnbr3ak3r on Mar 22, 2019 14:08:04 GMT
...as is the Super K combo but that got SOOO overused as a C2C set-up move in FPR (including by edits that had no business doing it!) and i can't even look at it anymore as a result, LOL.  Also, I feel attacked. |
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Post by DefLeppardVanHalen on Mar 22, 2019 14:23:26 GMT
Using the Monkey Flip would also help.
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Post by craziej2k on Mar 22, 2019 15:52:54 GMT
Using the Monkey Flip would also help. and the running to corner canadian destroyer sets opponents up for C2C very well. |
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Post by OrochiGeese on Mar 22, 2019 20:09:13 GMT
...as is the Super K combo but that got SOOO overused as a C2C set-up move in FPR (including by edits that had no business doing it!) and i can't even look at it anymore as a result, LOL. Also, I feel attacked. Noooo I wasn't referring to your edits! No no no no no no no. No. no. What I was really referring to was the result of the early days of FPR in 2005-06 where EVERY edit (regardless of style and size) was using the Super K combo because it was such a reliable C2C setup. As a result of the over-usage and the obvious framing of that move as a C2C setup, I can only see it as a C2C setup. It's like the entire identity of the move got turned into a C2C setup. I was guilty of it too. I was giving edits who couldn't even kick higher than their shin the move because I just wanted those sweet C2C moves which were so novel. I can't recall ever seeing that move on an edit who doesn't have a C2C move. Even if the C2C doesn't necessarily trigger every time the Super K finishes, it's almost always intended as a setup. So to me I can't suspend disbelief for that move on ANY edit. It's like "oh, I know what's coming next" rather than "oh what a cool move!" It was a cool move for like 2 months in 2005 and then it got put to work. It's hard for me to see it on any edit by any user and really buy into it after that early overuse. I can accept it better on some edits than others though and so many of your edits are of a size and style that could naturally use that move if it hadn't been overused early. Other moves have had that effect on me too. For a while I ruined the weak grapple osotogari cause I'd always chain it into the kick to leg. I stopped using it for a while then started using it on its own or with different setups and kind of reclaimed the uniqueness and independent role of the move. |
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Post by OrochiGeese on Mar 22, 2019 20:28:01 GMT
Guys I respond for the OP, this is some really useful information. But I have a similar question for logic. What about slingshot to inside moves? Like the AJ Styles' elbow? Those...are a different matter. It's somewhat tough to get them with any consistency without overdoing the percents. I'd just make sure to set reasonably high percents to them, have reliable knockdown moves in large damage and hope for the best. Really wish there were priority options for the apron springboard/slingshot moves. I really really wish that Spike had allowed us to priority into it. I was lobbying them to do so for a while during EA but it wasn't accepted. That being said, I was REALLY happy that they fixed the biggest problem with this move category which was that the opponents didn't stay down long enough after being hit to be pinned. That problem plagued the move in FPR. I tried everything in late 2016 in experiments for months to get it to work reliably but couldn't). It took Spike a few months and some errors along the way but they finally made it so that opponents stayed down long enough to be pinned or followed up in some other ways by Priority or regular ground logic. Never has an edit of mine been happier by a mechanics update than "Mr. Hyper Knee Kuga" Gushiken was about that 😀 Anyway, as to setting those moves up, you can really only do one of two things: 1) Have a decently high percentage and like 5-8 moves that can set up the springboard move. You get more variety this way of when it happens but you aren't really guaranteed to see it. 2) Have a VERY high percentage (even 100%) and only have about 2-3 moves that can set up the springboard move. But when any of those moves hit, the springboard will always occur as long as ring positioning is okay. That's what I did for Tetsu. One of his big front grapple and big back grapple moves are medium damage moves that are set up to trigger the 100% Hyper Knee Kuga to occur. I set up his moveset so that only those O moves were moves that put the opponent down for them to get up dazed. However, there are times that another move may trigger it due to the way the "dazed" state can get transferred to a move that doesn't usually cause it. But it's pretty rare this happens. Also, Strike Exchange moves sometimes trigger it but I'm okay with that as its a cool spot. The Hyper Knee Kuga is Tetsu's main finisher and I've had a lot of success in FPW in seeing it 1-2 times during an average match (12-15 minutes). Even at 100%, he doesn't overuse it because only 2 moves specifically go into it and the other moves usually don't trigger it. The big problem though if you have a 100% springboard move is what happens in Battle Royales. So you may juts want to lower the % for those matches or have an alternate version of the edit. |
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Post by Dawnbr3ak3r on Mar 23, 2019 1:53:39 GMT
Issa joke, Geese.
Nothing else.
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Post by sofia on Mar 23, 2019 2:03:53 GMT
Besides logic, I think move choice makes a huge difference in getting c2c moves to come out. A brainbuster/suplex move in a BIG front grapple spot can help. It also is a good way of getting a dive or two in a match. The Codebreaker/Double Knee Chin Crusher also has a pretty good conversion rate for C2Cs, as do most moves that don't move the opponent vertically all that much and have little to no recovery frames for the attacker.
It's important to put them on moves that'd be done with the heavy attack button, and not the sml+med spot that people typically use for a finisher, as those are pretty much always a guaranteed dazed opponent when they get up. sml+med is better suited for a move that's meant to link to a top rope dive, since it has the longest down time of any front or back grapple move.
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Post by OrochiGeese on Mar 23, 2019 3:20:56 GMT
Issa joke, Geese. Nothing else. Haha, I figured. But I just wanted to make sure you didn't feel bad 😀 Besides logic, I think move choice makes a huge difference in getting c2c moves to come out. A brainbuster/suplex move in a BIG front grapple spot can help. It also is a good way of getting a dive or two in a match. The only issue with that is there are times your wrestler won't get up soon enough to initiate the C2C in time before the opponent is up. It's kind of annoying that your wrestler has to be up first and in place for the C2C to trigger. If the opponent gets up while your wrestler is still getting into position, it won't initiate it. I REALLY do like that move that starts as a vertical suplex that ends like a body slam. I have used that to set up both the C2C and also top rope moves to standing dazed opponents. |
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Post by Princess Pepperoni on Mar 23, 2019 3:26:59 GMT
Pendulum Backbreaker set as a L grapple is a great set up move for a C2C as well, considering the opponent will roll of the knee and occasionally be centered enough for the move to trigger, while also leaving the attacker in a standing position. Really, any grapple that leaves the attacker standing in the L catergory is ideal for C2C triggering, as well as inside-to-ring springboard and standing dives. The less time you're on the floor, the better, since it allows your edit to set up for the move itself.
Edit: ALSO! Glad to see you on the board, Raven! It's been a while since I've last seen you in a stream and such. Hope all is well!
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