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Post by Spunk on Aug 22, 2018 20:56:15 GMT
Don't know, here's the thing though, I want to be share edits...so I'm going to make the tool. If Spike has an issue with that, I did everything in my power to mitigate this before it ever became a problem, so I don't really know what to tell 'em at this point except get your shit in order. Yeah, like look, I know that for me, personally, I need this tool. The tool will entirely be the share updates between Jason and I because I update our characters constantly as their stories evolve and the needs change. |
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Post by oneway23 on Aug 22, 2018 20:57:02 GMT
Thanks so much to Carl and romantic for the detailed updates. This is a tough situation, to be sure.
Carl, I don't know you personally, so, it'd be silly for me to attempt to offer you any kind of useful advice, but, please, if you will, allow me to say just a couple of quick things:
1. I'm going to risk speaking up for an entire community here, and, look, I may be Captain Obvious, but, your work is immensely appreciated, regardless of what happens going forward.
2. As wonderful as Fire Pro is, your life and your academic pursuits are, as shocking as this may be to some, infinitely more important.
As I said in an earlier post when trying to empathize with Spike's thinking, the die-hards will be here, regardless. They will wait as long as it takes for you to handle what you need to handle. For those who don't care to, it'll be their loss. If you should choose to leave this debacle behind entirely, that is obviously your right, as well.
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Post by Severla on Aug 22, 2018 20:57:20 GMT
Did you expect anything better? I sure didn't. I expected a shit show of complaints, but not warning shots across Spike's nose. I understand the views on keeping the mod scene alive and allowing people to continue to use it, but this topic has equally bled into territory that could equally punish the non-modders and our potential newcomers just as heavily. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 21:00:00 GMT
Yeah, it's not something that people should be forced to go without. If it creates issues between me and Spike, that's unfortunate, because I've been very good to them, as far as what I could release and what I have released...but I don't feel like there's another option about this particular thing. It needs to exist if people are going to not have access to the workshop, and that's all there is too it.
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Post by view619 on Aug 22, 2018 21:00:36 GMT
I wasn't suggesting that Carl open-source his code at all, I was suggesting that if there was ONE particular person he trusted with the code, he could let them make updates to it when he couldn't. Though if I were to be completely honest, yes, Spike open-sourcing the game would make things much, much easier for everyone at this point, given the circumstances.
I hate to throw them under the bus like this, and I hope they don't take this the wrong way, but I'm still writing a fair bit of the code in the mods that I don't release...
Some of this is entirely my own fault because I want to be overly helpful, so I take up projects simultaneously and share my results with them...then they tweak it for their own use...but no, there's no one I trust with the mod suite code at this point (sorry, guys, you know I have nothing but respect...but it's true...).
*Takes it the wrong way* Nah, it's true. I don't see anyone being able to take over Carl's modding for a number of reasons: 1. Out of the potential community candidates, only two members (Ace and myself) have actually worked through Carl's tutorials and started creating their own mods. 2. Not to take a shot at Carl, but the mod suite (and existing mods) are monsters; the features are vast and the lack of documentation means that you need an in-depth understanding and familiarity with the existing code base. That's not something you hand over, in the professional world it usually takes weeks or months of documentation and training to even reach a point where you can hand off so the next team can deal with fundamental operations. 3. Completely taking a shot at Spike Chunsoft, the vanilla code base is a mess. Not only is it proliferated with spelling errors, hard coding and questionable code practices in general, just decompiling it can be confusing as Spike tends to make some weird choices in how certain things are implemented. Paired with the existing bugs and updates that will regularly break features, learning enough to make a basic mod is daunting. Carl literally has thousands of hours of experience working with it; that means he knows how it works, how things tie together, what to do and NOT TO DO with respect to making changes, etc. Unless there's another community member who has been hiding in the shadows and messing with the code since Early Access, I'm sure that no-one has as much knowledge on the code base as Carl does; I would even say that he knows more than some members of the dev team based on a number of features he's provided that resolve basic game pain points. So when a random member states that "Carl should do this with his code base", it's disgusting. Before acting like you're entitled to the community effort of a SINGLE individual who, not only added new features and released them for your enjoyment, also willingly takes on the customer support role and tries to pass his knowledge down, think about the situation and just be thankful for what you have. Also, do some of the work/research yourself; if you want to support the game you still can. You just need to make a choice regarding the options available. |
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Post by romanticmisery on Aug 22, 2018 21:01:08 GMT
I expected a shit show of complaints, but not warning shots across Spike's nose. I understand the views on keeping the mod scene alive and allowing people to continue to use it, but this topic has equally bled into territory that could equally punish the non-modders and our potential newcomers just as heavily. Can you elaborate Severla? |
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Post by tillerbob on Aug 22, 2018 21:07:49 GMT
I just wanted to say I'm having a really shitty day and seeing internet drama brought a smile to my face.
I am on here daily but rarely comment, but I do want to chime in. Carl thank you for all you do. As a husband and father of two girls, priorities in life exceed a damn game. That's beyond obvious. I work in a trade where I've accumulated well over a decade of technical knowledge. I won't just give that knowledge away, that's not arrogance, that's pride. I've put a lot of time into this trade and if someone wants to know what I do, then get out there and do it yourself. I can wait however long it takes for you to get time to work on it. I will gladly buy the DLC from Spike, once Promoter is released. I don't care much for anything else but do want to support them. I'm extremely bitter and frustrated about how long it's taken, but I have other things in my life I can divert my attention to.
In the grand scheme of things, this really isn't that big of a deal. Hope you all are having a great day.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 21:09:20 GMT
I expected a shit show of complaints, but not warning shots across Spike's nose. I understand the views on keeping the mod scene alive and allowing people to continue to use it, but this topic has equally bled into territory that could equally punish the non-modders and our potential newcomers just as heavily. Can you elaborate Severla? If Spike views the modding community as a negative instead of a positive, they could try to lock everything down. Which could effect everybody. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 21:10:51 GMT
To be honest, I don't really care much about the story mode and NJPW guys that you can still download (in slightly less accurate form) from Workshop. The game + mods is pretty much good enough for me. I use the mods a lot, couldn't go back to vanilla game. I'll propably be going offline. So I'm kinda on the mod side of this "Fire Pro Civil War" of sorts. Lack of workshop is going to suck though, workaround would help with it a lot. Also, DLC is way too expensive. I would pay 10$ happily but 20 is a bit too much. I was going to buy it still just in case mods require it but now I don't know. They said they have a very small team, I think they went on with a bit too much, maybe making DLCs, porting the game to PS4, adding new content and fixing bugs is too much for them to handle?
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Post by Severla on Aug 22, 2018 21:11:26 GMT
If Spike views the modding community as a negative instead of a positive, they could try to lock everything down. Which could effect everybody. Or pack their shit up and go home early, despite Dave and Matsumoto's best efforts. They've constantly noted about how the US-PC Community has been championing shit. How the hell does Spike take it when suddenly half the community just torches a bridge? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 21:11:42 GMT
Can you elaborate Severla? If Spike views the modding community as a negative instead of a positive, they could try to lock everything down. Which could effect everybody.
At this point, they can't even get their own code out in a timely, bug-free manner...I don't think we have much to worry about.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 21:12:33 GMT
If Spike views the modding community as a negative instead of a positive, they could try to lock everything down. Which could effect everybody. Or pack their shit up and go home early, despite Dave and Matsumoto's best efforts. They've constantly noted about how the US-PC Community has been championing shit. How the hell does Spike take it when suddenly half the community just torches a bridge?
Then stop treating it like it's fucking secondary to a goddamn PC port for consoles.
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Post by romanticmisery on Aug 22, 2018 21:22:53 GMT
If Spike views the modding community as a negative instead of a positive, they could try to lock everything down. Which could effect everybody. Or pack their shit up and go home early, despite Dave and Matsumoto's best efforts. They've constantly noted about how the US-PC Community has been championing shit. How the hell does Spike take it when suddenly half the community just torches a bridge?
My biggest issue with all of this is the lack of communication: Ever since they started the whole PS4 thing, they left us in the dark, we only got one update featuring some moves, and thats it, we got the silent treatment for months, until they decided to butter us up by dropping the dlc stuff into the store and setting a release date..
To suddenly warn us, 6 days from the promised release that they'd postpone the content because of the PS4 stuff, and just leave at that, no stream to further elaborate, no more tweets, nothing.
Leaves a bad taste with the PC community.
I'm against screwing them over by allowing piracy to happen, and i will still buy their content when it comes out, but i can totally relate to carl and his general feelings about this whole situation. It's his call after all.
as for me? I'm just going to wait, because september is just around the corner. I'm still hoping for the best after all of this, really.
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Post by Severla on Aug 22, 2018 21:23:13 GMT
Then stop treating it like it's fucking secondary to a goddamn PC port for consoles.
We became the backlog the moment NJPW threw money at it and we all damn well knew it. When the guy throwing money at you has priority demands, you're gonna handle that shit first. That doesnt mean we're second class citizens, nor does it mean we should literally up-in-arms against them for this. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 21:30:43 GMT
You have your opinion, and I have mine. If they view modding as hostile going forward because I did what I had to do to keep it a float because they can't pull their shit together to treat the people who have been with them since before this NJPW shit became an issue, fine, whatever...no matter the outcome of that, they're shooting themselves in the foot, and it's not on me. To be perfectly honest, if this is going to be a running theme, putting the PC users on the back burner because it's not a big deal in Japan, then I'm not really concerned with keeping everything copacetic any longer. If things work out that way, awesome, if not, oh well...
What version do you think people will be playing in 10 years...because they're definitely not going to release another one anytime soon...I'd bet the farm it's the PC version.
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