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Post by view619 on Feb 10, 2019 2:22:46 GMT
Hi, Keep the insults to a minimum (ie none), or I'mma lock this thread and I'll actually have to act like an admin. Thanks! *Insert two big thumbs up for positive mod action!* |
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Post by Severla on Feb 10, 2019 2:48:03 GMT
Regression testing is all about LOOKING for new bugs. regression testing is verifying old shit works more than looking for new bugs. Bit of semantics, but still. Im sure their sole QA guy testing gameplay (because the rest , all 3 of them, are likely testing Promoter) and likely isnt actively simming because it could potentially be labeled 'not doing work' at many angles. |
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Post by Spunk on Feb 10, 2019 3:18:55 GMT
Kinda nuts when one of the two people that I had muted gets the axe.
The bug is pretty bad, but it also doesn't seem to happen all of the time? I think I notice it happening way more early in the match than later in the match. Curious if there's a setting somewhere that has to do with damage levels. Hopefully it'll be fixed soon.
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Post by Severla on Feb 10, 2019 3:24:49 GMT
The bug is pretty bad, but it also doesn't seem to happen all of the time? A few people were testing it last night and it seems that either A) theres a small delay in the whip logic taking hold or B) it's wonky 'dazed' logic overriding the whip logic |
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Post by amsterDAN on Feb 10, 2019 3:36:26 GMT
I'm pretty convinced its specifically irish whip counters. Whatever told them to stay in place and wait for the whipped wrestler to return no longer does and they take off wandering, ending up out of position and unable to hit a move, so they bump or miss altogether. Counters are where I've seen it most, and a duck-n-dodge appears to cause it too.
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Post by Severla on Feb 10, 2019 3:52:26 GMT
Counters are apparently not counting themselves as whips at all, and duck-n-dodge supports the potential A/B scenarios.
Yeah, it's borked out either way.
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Post by sofia on Feb 10, 2019 4:18:30 GMT
I'm guessing that, in the process of fixing tag team Irish whip logic, something got borked that causes Irish whip logic for the attacker to use standing logic instead... Hence walking into a collision, backing up and colliding, or side stepping. And since leapfrogs just reset the Irish whip RNG roll it just raises the likelihood of the bug occurring.
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Post by Spunk on Feb 10, 2019 4:20:15 GMT
The bug is pretty bad, but it also doesn't seem to happen all of the time? A few people were testing it last night and it seems that either A) theres a small delay in the whip logic taking hold or B) it's wonky 'dazed' logic overriding the whip logic Yeah, I'll see one leapfrog occasionally, then the character will run the ropes and both will just collide. That's the only other thing that I've been seeing. I don't actually mind that, if I'm honest, as it's close to the double shoulderblock spot that happens all of the time. What's nuts is the thing that they replaced, which was tossing someone into the ropes and then making a tag, was so much less of an issue. It happened, it was stupid, but this is a lot worse. |
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Post by Dawnbr3ak3r on Feb 10, 2019 6:56:30 GMT
 Don't ever discuss bugs in this forum ever again. Especially if it's a significant bug that affects everyone and is noticeable right off the bat. Better yet: Don't post about patches in this forum ever again. People lose their minds over it. Turns out that this particular bug is an actual problem. A stupid bug that didn't have to exist, but does, because reasons. I sent a Bug Report to Spike outlining the issue. I posted a video so people who didn't understand the issue knew what it was and what to look for. It's extremely noticeable. It breaks edits that rely on those Logic numbers to function the way they were designed. It breaks other parts of the edit's Logic (such as Daze States) too. No, it isn't "fine". How it even got past any QA is pretty laughable at this point. I don't care how few people they have testing the game. They hired a new team so this shit wouldn't happen. AND IT'S STILL HAPPENING. It's the same shit every time. Just... fucking stop. There's going to be three people left in this community by the time the game stops getting updated. I'm done with this garbage. |
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Post by OrochiGeese on Feb 10, 2019 8:20:58 GMT
The "X steps forward, Y steps back" approach has been frustrating for the past year. Any game that is on its third development team in less than 2 years is having issues, obviously. We all know it. And it's like every time I allow myself to get really deep into the game, they change or break something that turns me off to it. I already made my thoughts known on the big touchwork tag changes from last month. And while some of the negative feelings about it have healed to the point that I can sim tag matches again, I still get really irritated whenever I see frustrating things happen that wouldn't have happened under the old touchwork engine. That is why ONE of the reasons I was initially happy to see the recent patch on Monday was because Spike allowing wrestlers to complete their moves after the irish whip and not interrupt that spot to tag out. The irish whip issue itself was indicative of the overall problem of edits interrupting "normal pro wrestling spots" to suddenly tag out just because that arbitrary "time frame" under the new touchwork rules had run out. I was hoping (and still am) that Spike's realization would eventually translate to them preventing an edit from tagging out in the middle of completing a priority sequence. So that part of the patch was very much welcomed by me but then I heard about the bugs. I just hope Spike realizes that their initial attempt to fix something was good. They SHOULD continue fixing the game and also properly compensating for the problems the new touchwork rules created. It was their failure to properly test the ramifications of that fix (plus the fact that it was so easy and quick to actually see the problems had they properly looked) which was the problem. It would be like making a substantial logic change to my edit, then uploading that edit before simming it first. We wouldn't do it for an edit so I don't see how Spike did it for a major patch. It's not like people were even pressuring them about making the specific intentional changes they did in the patch or that they were late in promising that specific patch. They just launched the patch up there with the seeming immediacy/impatience of a patch that we all were clamoring for and that they had promised us two years ago. I've tried to stay fairly positive throughout the past year while still voicing my displeasure at some of the changes that I felt were negative or the bugs that we've seen. Spike was INCREDIBLY approachable and helpful during Early Access and granted many of my specific requests - some of them a bit esoteric. But after EA was over, I feel as if Spike focused on projects that many of us did not rank as highly to us, and at the cost of continuing to improve basic functionality. Then they got overextended with having too many projects and too little time/money to do them properly. Now it seems like they are operating on a small budget, with an even smaller team, and are doing things that puzzle me with a new team that may not actually understand a lot of the mechanics and basic appeal of Fire Pro. For example, suddenly fundamentally changing touchwork to solve a problem that didn't need that huge type of change was a red flag to me that something isn't quite right. Not testing a patch to find problems obvious within one simmed match is another red flag. There were so many things that needed more attention before EA was over and it almost seems like more problems are being created now with each new thing that they do. I don't really know the specific reason as to why they are having these issues. My guess (just based on industry practices) is that they suffered from a very limited budget and time frame for the game and post-release patches. But it's just bad form to release a patch that breaks things that are so easily detected that have not been a problem in the series in the past. In any case, I certainly believe that you can support the game and even support Spike while still being VERY clear about what the problems are. And the only way to make the game the best we can, assuming Spike really is still listening, is to alert them to the problems. Dawn did an excellent job with his tweets a few days ago. Spike needs to know and I think it only helps us to constructively and patiently tell them what the issues are. But around here, I understand the frustration with the game. I feel it too. It's still the best Fire Pro ever created but the potential has really outpaced the reality. And that's without even taking mods into account. Just the basic rules of "stop breaking the game" and "For Goose sake, PLEASE ALLOW US TO EASILY SEARCH FOR OUR EDITS IN A PC GAME WITH ALMOST LIMITLESS CAPACITY" shouldn't be broken this many times. But uh, yeah, rabble rabble!   |
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Post by Zealot on Feb 10, 2019 14:34:31 GMT
Well, this thread escalated quickly. :O
I mean I get that it's annoying (it is annoying), but I'm still playing the game. I'm sure it will get fixed down the road.
Maybe we should Smith Special this thread and just make a general game updates thread or something. I dunno. What I do know is that Minoru Suzuki riding a bike into his opponent never gets old.
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Ripley
Steel Johnson
Posts: 198
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Post by Ripley on Feb 10, 2019 15:03:45 GMT
Well, this thread escalated quickly. :O I mean I get that it's annoying (it is annoying), but I'm still playing the game. I'm sure it will get fixed down the road. Maybe we should Smith Special this thread and just make a general game updates thread or something. I dunno. What I do know is that Minoru Suzuki riding a bike into his opponent never gets old. It's hilarious, though, because this bug has turned me off demonstrably from playing the game, because it's so egregious and so commonplace in practically every single match you sim. One of the worst things a developer can do in ongoing support of a game is create an environment in which its customers don't want to play its games anymore. You can do this by either A) releasing patches that bork the game really badly or B) not giving enough support to the game via updating content, events, etc. (depending on the type of game.) Funny enough it feels like Spike has failed on both of these fronts. But I still enjoy Fire Pro enough that even if it's gonna take until like 2040 until all the DLC comes out I actively want to play it. That enthusiasm is diminished considerably when I see this kind of shit in every single match, though. Y'all can play the game or not find it a big deal. That's fine. But the notion, to me, at least, that this escalated beyond one person being completely ridiculous is... completely ridiculous. And then he was dealt with. We all know it'll get fixed eventually, but some of us are pretty tired of the notion that A) "eventually" means "who fucking knows" and B) this shouldn't have been a problem in the first place. And honestly C) this definitely isn't the first time something like this has happened and definitely won't be the last. I can nearly guarantee something in the patch that comes out around the time of Fire Promoter will bork the game just a little bit—not enough to break it, but there will be some annoying-ass thing that'll suck enjoyment out of the game. And that compounding of everything combined with outside things like maybe just having a shitty time of things or limited time to play games will mean some people will be much more unforgiving and done with Spike's shit. Again. No one is calling for Spike's heads. At all. People are allowed to vent and voice their frustrations with what has been a very frustrating situation. Yes, doing things like Dawn did is useful too, and at some point it all becomes a useless echo chamber (re: the whole NJPW DLC delay debacle). But this thread never got to that point, I feel. It's just people being rightly frustrated and using a venue they have access to to vent said frustrations. Really... not a big deal. *shrug* |
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Post by view619 on Feb 10, 2019 16:15:09 GMT
So, rolling back to the previous version (2.x) until Spike sorts out the issue in the (hopefully) next patch may be a good idea.
Better than updating the logic for all your edits, then being required to go back and change everything again IMO.
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Post by Dawnbr3ak3r on Feb 10, 2019 16:20:33 GMT
So, rolling back to the previous version (2.x) until Spike sorts out the issue in the (hopefully) next patch may be a good idea. Better than updating the logic for all your edits, then being required to go back and change everything again IMO. I'll live with it. It's fucking stupid as shit, but I'll live with it. I'm not changing any of my edits and it won't keep me from working on any scheduled edits I have in the pipeline. Thankfully I don't run any regularly scheduled shows where fuck-ups like that can happen. |
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Post by OrochiGeese on Feb 10, 2019 21:25:16 GMT
Yeah, right now I'm more annoyed by the idea of what happened with the recent patch than I am turned off from playing the actual game as a result. I have a lot I want to do in the game right now. I've enjoyed the majority of matches I simmed over the past week as well as the projects I've been working on.
I an still very frustrated about the touchwork change for multiple reasons but even then I'm still simming tag matches and doing the best I can to minimize the problems that have arose while hoping Spike makes additional tweaks to even things out.
Overall, I'm still trying to find that happy medium (Geese: "Call it a threshold, damn it!" ... sorry) between continuing to be excited about the game when playing and thinking about it while allowing myself to feel frustrated about a lot of what Spike did and could have done but didn't. I always try to be honest about the shortcomings of my favorite games and I trashed a lot of what Spike did with FPR over the years. But the way they have handled FPW and the communication regarding FPW has really thrown me for a loop over the past year. It's still the best Fire Pro game ever but it just feels so unstable as to what will happen next.
But I still really enjoy working on edits and watching the majority of the sims I've gotten. I still need the game for my feds, and am not going to roll back to FPR or anything like that lol.
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