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Post by Timberwolf on Feb 9, 2019 18:12:31 GMT
I'm considering cutting back on my irish whip logic for many of my edits because of this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2019 19:25:02 GMT
So just like fucking pay attention and check your shit before you release something. I understand that this team is understaffed and also seems to be under constant stress and seemingly turnover as well but to say you somehow just missed out on this bug is pretty pathetic. You can notice this bug happening within like three or four sims TOPS. I saw it in every single match I simmed the other night after the patch was out. And it's really fuckig egregious. Any kind of lucha edit or edit with prios related to dazed state is borked to shit. Like... this makes me question whether they even bothered to run a few matches after they did this work because this bug, again, is easily noticeable. Maybe I misread and they did notice it and it was simply too much work to make the fix in this patch. But if that's the case don't fucking release the patch yet. Work on fixing the bug and then release the patch with Fire Pro Promoter and you avoid this annoying-ass shit all together. You kind of missed the point I was trying to make. Director mentioned that the code involving logic was very temperamental. They messed with the irish whip code and inadvertently created this new bug. It's easy to miss a bug like that when you've been staring at the same project for a long time. You get so lazer focused on one thing that you can overlook another. This patch was probably suppose to be a small thing to let the community know that they were thinking of us while working on Fire Promoter. We're 18 days away from that release. Turnaround will probably be slower on fixing this new bug but that doesn't mean it won't get fixed or rolled back eventually. There's no reason to jump to doom and gloom yet. |
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Post by LankyLefty17 on Feb 9, 2019 20:32:32 GMT
So just like fucking pay attention and check your shit before you release something. I understand that this team is understaffed and also seems to be under constant stress and seemingly turnover as well but to say you somehow just missed out on this bug is pretty pathetic. You can notice this bug happening within like three or four sims TOPS. I saw it in every single match I simmed the other night after the patch was out. And it's really fuckig egregious. Any kind of lucha edit or edit with prios related to dazed state is borked to shit. Like... this makes me question whether they even bothered to run a few matches after they did this work because this bug, again, is easily noticeable. Maybe I misread and they did notice it and it was simply too much work to make the fix in this patch. But if that's the case don't fucking release the patch yet. Work on fixing the bug and then release the patch with Fire Pro Promoter and you avoid this annoying-ass shit all together. You kind of missed the point I was trying to make. Director mentioned that the code involving logic was very temperamental. They messed with the irish whip code and inadvertently created this new bug. It's easy to miss a bug like that when you've been staring at the same project for a long time. You get so lazer focused on one thing that you can overlook another. This patch was probably suppose to be a small thing to let the community know that they were thinking of us while working on Fire Promoter. We're 18 days away from that release. Turnaround will probably be slower on fixing this new bug but that doesn't mean it won't get fixed or rolled back eventually. There's no reason to jump to doom and gloom yet. Man I completely disagree. Regression testing is all about LOOKING for new bugs. This is a bad miss, plain and simple. If you want to make an excuse for them go ahead, but if you know logic is temperamental then you should be doing MORE testing to ensure you dont break something else. If you're not sure? Dont release it. There was nothing this patch fixed that was game breaking that needed to get rushed out the door. |
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Post by LankyLefty17 on Feb 9, 2019 20:48:14 GMT
Also- they did a “fix” to irish whip logic (related to tags). Literally the three test cases you do are: irish whip, whip counter, leap frog counter. If they did that theyd find it in two minutes, this isnt rocket science...
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Ripley
Steel Johnson
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Post by Ripley on Feb 9, 2019 22:04:20 GMT
So just like fucking pay attention and check your shit before you release something. I understand that this team is understaffed and also seems to be under constant stress and seemingly turnover as well but to say you somehow just missed out on this bug is pretty pathetic. You can notice this bug happening within like three or four sims TOPS. I saw it in every single match I simmed the other night after the patch was out. And it's really fuckig egregious. Any kind of lucha edit or edit with prios related to dazed state is borked to shit. Like... this makes me question whether they even bothered to run a few matches after they did this work because this bug, again, is easily noticeable. Maybe I misread and they did notice it and it was simply too much work to make the fix in this patch. But if that's the case don't fucking release the patch yet. Work on fixing the bug and then release the patch with Fire Pro Promoter and you avoid this annoying-ass shit all together. You kind of missed the point I was trying to make. Director mentioned that the code involving logic was very temperamental. They messed with the irish whip code and inadvertently created this new bug. It's easy to miss a bug like that when you've been staring at the same project for a long time. You get so lazer focused on one thing that you can overlook another. This patch was probably suppose to be a small thing to let the community know that they were thinking of us while working on Fire Promoter. We're 18 days away from that release. Turnaround will probably be slower on fixing this new bug but that doesn't mean it won't get fixed or rolled back eventually. There's no reason to jump to doom and gloom yet. Lefty basically said I was going to say, but no, I didn't miss the point, really. Where you and I fundamentally disagree is that the patch shouldn't have been released if they knew the code involving logic is temperamental. It really is a VERY easy bug to check because just watch a single match for five minutes involving every return style and you have done your due diligence. Anyone who did so would be able to see "Oh, shit, we have a problem here with (return style X)." And then if they were responsible they would have just... not released the patch. As Lefty said, there was no real reason to release a patch considering nothing was catastrophically broken about logic and this patch created more of a problem than the problem they tried to fix was worth. This isn't the end of the world and yes it'll be fixed eventually, but where my problem lies is that, again, there wasn't enough of a colossal problem to fix anyway, and the borked-ass Irish Whips creates more of a problem than what it tried to fix. I don't pretend to know how to code, but I do know the notion of getting so lazer-focused on something that you can miss things. So there's some sympathy there. I've absolutely done that kind of stuff before. But here's the thing: in my PROFESSIONAL LIFE, I have checks and balances to make sure I prevent that kind of shit. I am in constant contact with publishers, I am constantly converting huge swaths of data for them to other formats. I am sending out bibliodata and covers for books to retailers like Indigo, Amazon, etc. weekly. And I can very easily miss things. I do it all the fucking time. And I work alone. But here's the thing: I double-check shit. I triple-check shit. If I'm unsure about something I ask a co-worker to take a minute and check something. That's what teams are for. If it's just a sidegig you aren't getting paid for and it's inconsequential then whatever you make mistakes it's cool. But like if it's your job then just do your job better lol. One fuck-up it's fun. Two it's fine. But specifically with regards to Spike and this game they have a pattern of just releasing patches that contain weird little bugs that may not be game-breaking but really add up, especially when it happens every patch. And this, in the grand scheme of things, will be pretty inconsequential. If they had a bigger team or more resources they could even probably release a hotfix in like, a day or two. A week, tops. Problem is considering their past track record it's not too unreasonable to feel a little bit cynical about this getting fixed before Fire Promoter comes out—which, yes, is eighteen days away, but, again, to me, the thing they tried to fix... wasn't that big of a deal, and I'd rather have Irish Whips that aren't borked for those nearly three weeks. I try to give devs A LOT of slack because making video games is fucking hard and I think in general gaming communities are way too quick to jump down the throats of devs. But Spike has had a history of really botching a lot of shit about Fire Pro for quite some time, and time and time again we see questionable decisions made by this dev team or Matsumoto. And this isn't the first time we've had a patch fuck something up that was fine beforehand. At some point the excuse of "Well they're a small team" or "They're under a lot of pressure" or "They just didn't have time to test everything 100%" kinda falls apart to me, because, well, they should be better. We're still paying customers. To me it's like going to a restaurant and ordering something and them fucking up your order. If I'm going to a steak place I'm going there under the assumption that, hey, I am paying money because this person is a professional and they can do the thing I'm paying them for better than I can. So if they fuck up my order I have every right to be upset because I paid money for that transaction. Obviously you don't need to be a dick about it but you can still be upset. Inconsequential in the grand scheme of things but, again, you still have a right to be upset. You definitely have a right to be upset if, for example, in the case of Fire Pro every patch seems to bring a new problem. If I need my car fixed and I pay a mechanic to do a thing I can't do, just because I can't fix my car doesn't mean I can't be upset if they can't fix it either. Again, I paid them for a service, they need to do shit right. You can make the argument that once a game hits 1.0 and is officially released devs don't owe you shit but I personally believe in the age of GAMES AS A SERVICE if you're providing ongoing support for your game(s) in the ways of patches and DLC (and especially DLC, and especially DLC like Fire Promoter that will be out soon) you owe it to people to make sure you're doing your job well and release patches that work. Again, one off little things that they can't catch, once or twice? That's fine. Nearly every game has some patch where something is borked, but it has happened with nearly EVERY SINGLE PATCH Spike has released, if not every patch they've released since 1.0. And that's just ridiculous. Long rant over, this is all to say it isn't a big deal at the end of the day and in the grand scheme of things, no, but I'm personally pretty over "cutting the director and the devs some slack." Like, just... pay better attention. Especially for this patch. To me this didn't seem like a patch that was in dire need of coming out and I would much rather them have not rushed it out and fucked up the Irish Whips over what we got in return. Hindsight is 20/20, yes, but again, considering the growing number of times this kind of shit has happened and considering the fact that they LITERALLY BROUGHT IN A NEW DEV TEAM TO ASSURE THIS KIND OF SLOPPY SHIT WOULDN'T HAPPEN you think they'd do a better job of release patches so that... hey, maybe, they check their shit better and don't cause bugs like this one. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2019 23:47:01 GMT
Let me take one more run at this wall.
It's easy to say "FUCK THIS IS SO SIMPLE HOW COULD THEY OVERLOOK THIS HORRIBLE FLAW ANYBODY WITH HALF A BRAIN COULD NOTICE FFFFFFFFFFFF" but they tried to do something with the logic, it worked and it also inadvertently broke a different part of that system. If he was laser focused on accomplishing that thing, it would be easy to not see the bug they created. He wouldn't be looking for it. Spike passes it off to their Russian playtesters and I doubt they're simming a bunch of matches. So they give it a thumbs up for release. Then Dawnbreaker, the man that sims a million matches, notices the problem and goes "Is this a bug?"
Spike doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt but, if you just calmly look at the situation, you can see it's probably a simple mistake of dealing with a finicky part of the code. Not crazy incompetence. Not the sky is falling.
Fire Promoter has a hard date so it's not likely they're going to divert their entire team towards bug hunting like they've done in the past with other fuck ups. Yeah it sucks that lucha sims aren't working right today but try to take a breath. You're winding yourself up over something that will get fixed eventually.
And it was a mistake made with good intentions. Director is still trying (sometimes without success) to improve the game after release. It would be really simple to not do any of that, shove out the DLC and call it a day. I think people lose sight of that fact sometimes.
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Post by Wonderland on Feb 10, 2019 0:19:59 GMT
the patch shouldn't have been released if they knew the code involving logic is temperamental. All code is temperamental. No software would ever be released if devs waited on perfection. Still nowhere near as temperamental as angry internet wrestling game nerds though. If I was the director, I'd be throwing shit like this in just to piss us off. Trollism > capitalism |
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Post by amsterDAN on Feb 10, 2019 0:32:14 GMT
I'm sorry charlie but I gotta disagree with you. This absolutely IS crazy incompetence by Spike here. The bug they've introduced is so glaring you literally can't make it two minutes into a match without encountering it. It takes no special circumstances to cause the bug, it is affecting all users all the time now. Not catching it in testing before pushing out the patch can hardly be attributed to anything other than incompetence, in my opinion. They built the damn game, they oughta know what a match should look like and be able to tell if something as fundamental as whips has been broken. Letting this bug slip out is just laughable.
And seriously, who the hell thought the 1-second delay on releasing a successful pin was something we urgently needed? 99% of real life wrestling matches end with the loser feebly making an effort to kick out a split second too late, and now that effect is largely removed from the game. And for what? Why on earth did anyone at Spike waste time making this change? This last patch was just baffling, nothing in it was noteworthily necessary at all. Matsumoto has lost his damn mind, if you ask me.
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Post by LankyLefty17 on Feb 10, 2019 0:33:21 GMT
Let me take one more run at this wall. It's easy to say "FUCK THIS IS SO SIMPLE HOW COULD THEY OVERLOOK THIS HORRIBLE FLAW ANYBODY WITH HALF A BRAIN COULD NOTICE FFFFFFFFFFFF" but they tried to do something with the logic, it worked and it also inadvertently broke a different part of that system. If he was laser focused on accomplishing that thing, it would be easy to not see the bug they created. He wouldn't be looking for it. Spike passes it off to their Russian playtesters and I doubt they're simming a bunch of matches. So they give it a thumbs up for release. Then Dawnbreaker, the man that sims a million matches, notices the problem and goes "Is this a bug?" Spike doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt but, if you just calmly look at the situation, you can see it's probably a simple mistake of dealing with a finicky part of the code. Not crazy incompetence. Not the sky is falling. Fire Promoter has a hard date so it's not likely they're going to divert their entire team towards bug hunting like they've done in the past with other fuck ups. Yeah it sucks that lucha sims aren't working right today but try to take a breath. You're winding yourself up over something that will get fixed eventually. And it was a mistake made with good intentions. Director is still trying (sometimes without success) to improve the game after release. It would be really simple to not do any of that, shove out the DLC and call it a day. I think people lose sight of that fact sometimes. I think you're missing the point being made. No one is saying that the bugs are intentional or that there isnt positive intent. The point is this one was an easy catch, and if they're doing ANY kind of testing, they should have caught that.
Telling people to "calm down" just because you dont think the bug is a big deal is silly. That's what these forums are about- to talk about the game (including bugs). You wanna sit around and justify the repeated mistakes? Cool. Some of us want to bitch when a patch came out to fix small stuff that wasn't really an issue and it broke a much more core function because they didn't do simple testing. There really isn't any need to pass judgment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 0:48:10 GMT
I really try not to respond with anger but you people are hysterical. Seriously put the game down and take a break until the final DLC is released. Every patch is like this. Anything good is ignored. Anything bad is amplified into the worst thing that's ever happened in the history of Fire Pro.
Try talking about something without being a bunch of chicken littles.
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Post by LankyLefty17 on Feb 10, 2019 0:57:50 GMT
I really try not to respond with anger but you people are hysterical. Seriously put the game down and take a break until the final DLC is released. Every patch is like this. Anything good is ignored. Anything bad is amplified into the worst thing that's ever happened in the history of Fire Pro. Try talking about something without being a bunch of chicken littles. You're right, the game is perfect. We should only talk about how great the game is. Pointing out bugs is unproductive. Holding the dev team accountable for patches that break things is "being hysterical." You have the right of it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 0:58:57 GMT
I never said it was perfect.
Mod edit: the last part was uncalled for, dawg
charlie edit: fuck you
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Post by LankyLefty17 on Feb 10, 2019 1:00:12 GMT
That's the spirit!
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Post by amsterDAN on Feb 10, 2019 1:17:52 GMT
I really try not to respond with anger but you people are hysterical. Seriously put the game down and take a break until the final DLC is released. Every patch is like this. Anything good is ignored. Anything bad is amplified into the worst thing that's ever happened in the history of Fire Pro. Try talking about something without being a bunch of chicken littles. How is discussing a glaring bug that everyone unanimously agrees is a pretty big problem being "hysterical"? You defend the devs like you're trying to win a free Spike Chunsoft t-shirt or something. It's perfectly possible to simultaneously love this game and admit the breaking of irish whips was ridiculous. |
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Post by sofia on Feb 10, 2019 2:02:59 GMT
Hi,
Keep the insults to a minimum (ie none), or I'mma lock this thread and I'll actually have to act like an admin.
Thanks!
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