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Post by dnmt on Sept 1, 2018 3:59:15 GMT
Hi all just wondering what your tips are on getting longer CPU vs. CPU matches. I have adjusted my logic to match Carlzilla/theDenizen's guide and am consistently getting 100% matches from my Okada vs. Omega sims. Only problem is they all tend to end right after a One-Winged Angel around the 18-19 minutes mark. Any tips on getting this up to 25 to 30 instead? Using the default Red Shoes as ref, perhaps I should start there?
EDIT - Could it be a parameters thing? It seems like they are doing their L damage moves very quick. I have Okada hitting Tombstones at 5 minute mark, even tho I have them only with a % in L Damage. Should I re-balance the parameters to favor defensive stats more instead of offensive? Will that let guys take more damage and take longer to get to the "L Damage" stage?
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Post by dnmt on Sept 1, 2018 4:03:51 GMT
Think I have to lower the % I have on the Rainmaker and one-Winged Angel from 25% to 20%. That could lengthen the match a bit as that is the primary way I have it ending.
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Post by Nth on Sept 1, 2018 4:18:51 GMT
Slow counting ref and the old KOC 2up 2down on the parameters trick should do it.
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Post by Severla on Sept 1, 2018 4:30:04 GMT
Params are key. Lower them from those (pretty damn) high bases they have if you kept them.
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Post by dnmt on Sept 1, 2018 4:47:43 GMT
Params are key. Lower them from those (pretty damn) high bases they have if you kept them. Probably best to just lower offensive ones, right?
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Post by dnmt on Sept 1, 2018 5:00:07 GMT
Slow counting ref and the old KOC 2up 2down on the parameters trick should do it. What do you mean 2 up 2 down? I was thinking about taking 5 points away from offense and adding 5 points in total to defense. Is that similar?
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Post by Nth on Sept 1, 2018 6:09:04 GMT
Slow counting ref and the old KOC 2up 2down on the parameters trick should do it. What do you mean 2 up 2 down? I was thinking about taking 5 points away from offense and adding 5 points in total to defense. Is that similar? Yep, lower all offensive parameters by 2 and raise all defensive parameters by 2. In the KOC games you would get 30+ minute matches. If you did it by 5 you would get even longer.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2018 10:54:36 GMT
Hi all just wondering what your tips are on getting longer CPU vs. CPU matches. I have adjusted my logic to match Carlzilla/theDenizen's guide and am consistently getting 100% matches from my Okada vs. Omega sims. Only problem is they all tend to end right after a One-Winged Angel around the 18-19 minutes mark. Any tips on getting this up to 25 to 30 instead? Using the default Red Shoes as ref, perhaps I should start there? EDIT - Could it be a parameters thing? It seems like they are doing their L damage moves very quick. I have Okada hitting Tombstones at 5 minute mark, even tho I have them only with a % in L Damage. Should I re-balance the parameters to favor defensive stats more instead of offensive? Will that let guys take more damage and take longer to get to the "L Damage" stage? This is pretty much my bread-and-butter topic. I was going to write a guide or post on having edits with different workrates, including the few that work ***** matches together. A few tips... -LOW offense, HIGH defense. This is a key to making any edit into a good worker who has longer matches. But particularly, make two edits that are supposed to have great matches be strong against each other's specialties. My Bret Hart has EXTREMELY high kicking defense, for example, and Shawn Michaels has extremely high submission defense. This not only works in the matches, it makes sense. Rivals know each other's strategies. -Have the wrestlers circle a lot early, go for weak grapple moves etc., you have a defined "beginning stage" to the match which helps pace it out into long form. -After that, spread out the percentages, so guys continue to do some weak grapple moves in medium damage and some weak and medium damage moves in high damage. When you have long matches, VARIETY is key to keeping them interesting. -Have logic to what they do. My Ricky Steamboat tends to work on arms throughout a match, I link his armdrag into an armbar, use arm snaps and things like that. SEEING the opponent's arms droop throughout the match really adds to the appeal. Flair goes crazy attacking the opponent's legs, but it doesn't trigger until the opponent hits critical damage ("and now we go to school!"). Bret Hart links together the Russian Legsweep, Elbowdrop off the top, Sharpshooter etc. -Use priority to make them do things that make sense in general. Make them try for pins after their big moves, so the goal and believability of the match stays there, with them TRYING to win. Also, you can link headlocks, shoulderblocks etc. in low damage, and so on. Watching and waiting for those priority moments makes a match interesting in and of itself. -And of course, have a designated referee for longer matches! Give them slow movement, slow count and so on. I also like to make the matches 2/3 falls or Iron Man-style to let them show everything they can do. -ROPE BREAKS. I forgot to say this before. When I want two guys to have a long match, I always turn on Rope Breaks. Likewise, you can turn off the Outside Count to let them spend more time fighting on the ground as well. -When you combine these things with edits who are made to resist each other's strategies, you often get magic. My Ricky Steamboat has good matches, my Ric Flair can carry almost anyone to something decent, but when you put Flair against Steamboat, expect a WAR. On Fire Pro Returns, it wasn't uncommon at all to have a 45 or 50-minute match between them. -------------------------------------- By contrast, edits who can't work have high offense and low defense, repetitive moves, only pin after finishers etc. And put them with your fast-counting ref. They can be fun to watch in short squashes, but anything over 20-minutes or so is quite boring. Unless you have someone like Flair to carry them. --------------------------------------- I've heard a lot about Okada and Omega. I may watch some of their matches and make two edits out of both of them as well.
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Post by dnmt on Sept 3, 2018 3:09:22 GMT
Hi all just wondering what your tips are on getting longer CPU vs. CPU matches. I have adjusted my logic to match Carlzilla/theDenizen's guide and am consistently getting 100% matches from my Okada vs. Omega sims. Only problem is they all tend to end right after a One-Winged Angel around the 18-19 minutes mark. Any tips on getting this up to 25 to 30 instead? Using the default Red Shoes as ref, perhaps I should start there? EDIT - Could it be a parameters thing? It seems like they are doing their L damage moves very quick. I have Okada hitting Tombstones at 5 minute mark, even tho I have them only with a % in L Damage. Should I re-balance the parameters to favor defensive stats more instead of offensive? Will that let guys take more damage and take longer to get to the "L Damage" stage? This is pretty much my bread-and-butter topic. I was going to write a guide or post on having edits with different workrates, including the few that work ***** matches together. A few tips... -LOW offense, HIGH defense. This is a key to making any edit into a good worker who has longer matches. But particularly, make two edits that are supposed to have great matches be strong against each other's specialties. My Bret Hart has EXTREMELY high kicking defense, for example, and Shawn Michaels has extremely high submission defense. This not only works in the matches, it makes sense. Rivals know each other's strategies. -Have the wrestlers circle a lot early, go for weak grapple moves etc., you have a defined "beginning stage" to the match which helps pace it out into long form. -After that, spread out the percentages, so guys continue to do some weak grapple moves in medium damage and some weak and medium damage moves in high damage. When you have long matches, VARIETY is key to keeping them interesting. -Have logic to what they do. My Ricky Steamboat tends to work on arms throughout a match, I link his armdrag into an armbar, use arm snaps and things like that. SEEING the opponent's arms droop throughout the match really adds to the appeal. Flair goes crazy attacking the opponent's legs, but it doesn't trigger until the opponent hits critical damage ("and now we go to school!"). Bret Hart links together the Russian Legsweep, Elbowdrop off the top, Sharpshooter etc. -Use priority to make them do things that make sense in general. Make them try for pins after their big moves, so the goal and believability of the match stays there, with them TRYING to win. Also, you can link headlocks, shoulderblocks etc. in low damage, and so on. Watching and waiting for those priority moments makes a match interesting in and of itself. -And of course, have a designated referee for longer matches! Give them slow movement, slow count and so on. I also like to make the matches 2/3 falls or Iron Man-style to let them show everything they can do. -When you combine these things with edits who are made to resist each other's strategies, you often get magic. My Ricky Steamboat has good matches, my Ric Flair can carry almost anyone to something decent, but when you put Flair against Steamboat, expect a WAR. On Fire Pro Returns, it wasn't uncommon at all to have a 45 or 50-minute match between them. -------------------------------------- By contrast, edits who can't work have high offense and low defense, repetitive moves, only pin after finishers etc. And put them with your fast-counting ref. They can be fun to watch in short squashes, but anything over 20-minutes or so is quite boring. Unless you have someone like Flair to carry them. --------------------------------------- I've heard a lot about Okada and Omega. I may watch some of their matches and make two edits out of both of them as well. Awesome info here. I am gonna bump up the “circle opponent” % a bit. I am adjusting parameters too but not sure how much to do so. Thought about taking 5 points away across my offensive parameters in total and maybe adding 5 to defense in total.
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Post by dnmt on Sept 3, 2018 4:40:28 GMT
Just re-did some logic and parameters and testing an Okada/Omega match now since I am basically using them as my templates for the NJPW style.
Decided to go with a +/- 3 points (5 seemed extreme). Basically just moving 3 points in total from the offensive parameters column to defense, particularly focusing on areas like throw, lariat, etc.
As for CPU Logic, what % is good for "circle opponent" in the early half of the match? Right now, I have it at 15% for S Damage and 12% for L Damage right now.
Thanks again for the advice!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 8:01:40 GMT
Just re-did some logic and parameters and testing an Okada/Omega match now since I am basically using them as my templates for the NJPW style. Decided to go with a +/- 3 points (5 seemed extreme). Basically just moving 3 points in total from the offensive parameters column to defense, particularly focusing on areas like throw, lariat, etc. As for CPU Logic, what % is good for "circle opponent" in the early half of the match? Right now, I have it at 15% for S Damage and 12% for L Damage right now. Thanks again for the advice! Rather than type it out, I just did screenshots and put them all in one image. This is Ricky Steamboat. You might notice that he has strike exchanges set to "disabled." This is because I already had Flair and Steamboat chopping the exact amount that I wanted from Fire Pro Returns and the strike exchanges made it too much. So I either had to alter all their striking and weak grapple logic or just turn strike exchanges off. :) Also, I TOTALLY FORGOT to mention, ROPE BREAKS! When I wanted Flair and Steamboat to go 40-minutes, I would always have rope breaks on. You can also turn off the outside count to let them spend more time fighting out there as well. I will add that to the previous post. ![](https://i.imgur.com/jSA0J8Q.jpg)
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Post by djkm77 on Sept 3, 2018 14:00:21 GMT
Don't mess with your edits. The answer is a slow ref with a slow count. That will fix all your problems.
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Post by amsterDAN on Sept 3, 2018 14:12:38 GMT
I gotta second djkm's advice. If you're already getting 18-ish minute matches from your edits and wanna stretch it a bit further, and they are otherwise behaving as you'd like, the referee is the thing that needs editing, not the wrestlers. I must respectfully disagree with the suggestion made in a previous post about cranking up the circle opponent percentage; I find it causes a lot of awkward wandering about after a certain point.
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Post by pfadrian on Sept 3, 2018 14:38:56 GMT
Just re-did some logic and parameters and testing an Okada/Omega match now since I am basically using them as my templates for the NJPW style. Decided to go with a +/- 3 points (5 seemed extreme). Basically just moving 3 points in total from the offensive parameters column to defense, particularly focusing on areas like throw, lariat, etc. As for CPU Logic, what % is good for "circle opponent" in the early half of the match? Right now, I have it at 15% for S Damage and 12% for L Damage right now. Thanks again for the advice! Rather than type it out, I just did screenshots and put them all in one image. This is Ricky Steamboat. You might notice that he has strike exchanges set to "disabled." This is because I already had Flair and Steamboat chopping the exact amount that I wanted from Fire Pro Returns and the strike exchanges made it too much. So I either had to alter all their striking and weak grapple logic or just turn strike exchanges off. :) Also, I TOTALLY FORGOT to mention, ROPE BREAKS! When I wanted Flair and Steamboat to go 40-minutes, I would always have rope breaks on. You can also turn off the outside count to let them spend more time fighting out there as well. I will add that to the previous post. ![](https://i.imgur.com/jSA0J8Q.jpg) Those Offensive Parameters seem a bit high to me. Given that most of Steamboat’s big moves use Punch, Agility, Technical, wouldn’t you want to lower those more if aiming to have a longer match?
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Post by dnmt on Sept 3, 2018 15:31:48 GMT
Don't mess with your edits. The answer is a slow ref with a slow count. That will fix all your problems. The problem with that approach is what I outlined earlier. My edits are getting to the L Damage part of their CPU Logic 5-7 minutes into the match, when in NJPW that happens more around the 10-15 minute mark. And I can only do so much with movesets and logic when I am basing these edits on real life wrestlers. The last thing I want is Okada kicking out of 3 One-Winged Angels because Omega starts hitting them at the 12 minute mark but my referee is too slow. Last night I got a 100%, 31 minute match out of them that ended after the first OWA.
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