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Post by OrochiGeese on Jun 30, 2020 23:40:52 GMT
I still need to watch the rest of the move craft vids, but I had a question about the D flag. It was supposed to be the damage flag, right? But when I added the D flag to the frame where the damage goes on either the attacker or the defender, it made it RED and would not let me save/register it. Are some of these flags reserved for certain types of move situations / types? I guess maybe I should go through all the vids first but I also wanted to ask if there was a running post/thread with a FAQ/GUIDE in progress or anything like that? Should we be making one? Or is all this kind of shit happening on Steam community pages now? I noticed the same issue. Some striking moves and jumping moves don't have D flags. I think some flags are not applicable for some of the move types. And the videos I've seen so far (the first 10) don't go into that. The videos are very uneven. Some of the videos showed me things I didn't know (like the useful body parts pop-up) but they weren't anywhere near as specific enough about things I wanted to know. The apron to inside moves don't seem to have the "D" flag. It's also sometimes hard to use the default moves as guides since they are created unevenly too. This thread is kind of the running post/thread with a Q&A function but we're still far from having a dedicated FAQ and we really need that. Someone is going to have to compile all of that but Move Craft may be too new for that. I haven't checked the Steam community pages. UNCLEAN 😈 Now that we can make so many things, a thought has occupied my head recently: How real do we want these moves to look? At what point are we going beyond the "suggestive simulation" style of Fire Pro that has made it so great by trying to emulate every frame of a move? I'm trying to make certain default moves smoother and have more impact but if I go too far in either direction, they can feel like they're in a different game. So I've been mindful of these limits as of late, remembering that a key portion of Fire Pro is filling in the blanks with our own imagination. Yeah, this is quickly becoming a big issue with downloadable edits. The style is all over the place. They tie the parts craft and move craft to an edit and if you don't like any of those, you have to clone and go in and take them off. Lots of edit heads have that NBA JAM BIG HEAD MODE look, too. I jumped back into Fire Pro excited about moves then quickly remembered that I never really used other people's stuff because I'm so picky about it. Suplex DDT and PowerBomb placement on the dpad is still an issue... lol I haven't even downloaded Parts Crafts yet but I can imagine there is a ton that is completely out of place with the FP style. NBA Jam Big Head mode is the least surprising thing to happen to FPW. I'm seeing a lot of move animations which are done technically well but just aren't to my taste. That's fine, of course. But it's hard to wade through things when you know you want certain moves but see them and they are totally the wrong aesthetic for the way you envision the game. I'm sure my moves will be guilty of that for others too. It's just an "eye of the beholder" thing and my brown eye stinks as much as anyone's. Maybe more! I think the initial flood of content is great but if this IS the last update for the last Fire Pro ever, then we'll see the cream rise to the top eventually and this weird experimental phase will pass. Everybody needs time to get GUD at the craft modes, then the herd voting kicks in to see which is the definitive version of this or that. It will be interesting to see which direction that herd goes... more realistic or more Fire Pro. Move Craft is basically a re-release of Fire Pro World. Ever since it came out, it felt like the game is completely new to me because I'm spending time playing it entirely differently AND it's going to completely revolutionize my edits. I can't remember ever using a DLC that so completely changed one's experience with a 3-year old base game. But like we all remember, every time a new Fire Pro game comes out, the initial round of edits that come out are eventually refined and evolved. That's natural. I can't even look at my first few edits with FPW (to say nothing about the abominations of my first edits ever in FPD). So I think that while we have seen some revolutionary things from a number of talented and also experienced users (those who used WAZA Make for the mod pack), everyone else will eventually come along as we gradually watch the videos and hone our abilities. The herd absolutely helped define how edits/logic were made in FPR. I'm sure the same will go for Move Craft. I'm still figuring out how to nail the balance between "Fire Pro" and "what I want to see for each move." That will be a long-term conversation between my edits and myself. Maybe guest speakers too. But it made me think about DE MAKING an entire moveset for laughs. Have an old school edit with low res sprites for parts craft and reduce all the frames in its animations. Name him Retro Remoulade or Old School Orville or whatever. OMG the names, the NAMES!! You appear to be the only person other than me to use "Remoulade" in standard day to day conversation too which I am very happy to see. That is such an underused word. I love the idea of creating a retro-style edit with low key sprites and the most basically animated moves. You can even put a whole fed together and call it... 🥁🥁 Fire Pro: LD 😁 |
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Post by SonnyBone on Jun 30, 2020 23:53:23 GMT
Fire Pro: LOW-D Edition
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Post by OrochiGeese on Jun 30, 2020 23:55:30 GMT
Fire Pro: Low-C Edition
Fight Style: Pirate 🏴☠️
Special Skill: Scurvy 🚫🍊🚫
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2020 0:15:19 GMT
So what would a Low-T edition be like?
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Post by OrochiGeese on Jul 1, 2020 0:27:08 GMT
It would come with a late night infomercial talking about "improving performance" 🍆
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Post by IamAres on Jul 1, 2020 0:44:54 GMT
From what I've seen, it seems like moves with a hitbox (strikes, flying, etc.) don't take a damage frame - the hitbox, in essence, is the damage frame.
Some other moves don't take a D-frame because...they don't ACTUALLY do damage. For instance, any strike in a strike exchange other than the final one. That's right, strike exchanges are a work, kid. This is also why they don't completely annihilate both wrestlers' health/spirit. On the flip side, this also means that the winner matters, since only the loser takes damage. STRIKE EXCHANGES ARE A SHOOT AGAIN, KID
I'm sure other moves don't call for a D-frame, too, but I'm still kind of self-teaching, so I won't profess to know everything. I did just learn I could move the forms without creating a custom one...yesterday?
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Post by SonnyBone on Jul 1, 2020 0:46:53 GMT
AHHHHHHHHHHHH that would explain it. It was the top rope cutter which has a hitbox on it. Thanks for the info, man.
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Post by SonnyBone on Jul 1, 2020 4:45:53 GMT
Getting a ton of crashes on MoveCraft on PS4. Simply loading 2 presets in the Form Library and previewing the animation has resulted in crashes. I'm up to 3 or 4 now. Anyone else? Gonna be impossible to do anything if this keeps happening.
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Post by OrochiGeese on Jul 1, 2020 6:27:24 GMT
"T" flag question:
Part 8 of the Spike Youtube video series says that the "T" flag determines whether the attacker will be standing while being attacked. This is a bit vague, especially after looking at way default moves have it. Are we supposed to assign "T" when attacker is standing but not currently in a move animation?
I don't think they mean "standing" as opposed to "lying on the mat" or "jumping in the air" just because "T" seems to be set the most often on the defaults when the wrestler has just finished the animation of their move and is returning to a standing or "neutral" position.
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Post by SonnyBone on Jul 1, 2020 6:59:50 GMT
"T" flag question: Part 8 of the Spike Youtube video series says that the "T" flag determines whether the attacker will be standing while being attacked. This is a bit vague, especially after looking at way default moves have it. Are we supposed to assign "T" when attacker is standing but not currently in a move animation? I don't think they mean "standing" as opposed to "lying on the mat" or "jumping in the air" just because "T" seems to be set the most often on the defaults when the wrestler has just finished the animation of their move and is returning to a standing or "neutral" position. MAN I DON'T FUCKIN KNOW I've been looking at the T and Y settings in the default moves and none of the shit I come up with makes sense. At first I figured Y was when the move is interrupted... and would determine if BOTH wrestlers would fall down or if just the attacker would. For instance, a vertical suplex would have a Y value because the defender would fall from the sky even if the attacker was attacked by someone. But for a super kick, the defender wouldn't fall down again after getting kicked if the attacker got hit after connecting with the superkick. But some of the moves don't follow that setup. As for T... I have no fuckin idea. It says it's for TACKLE moves, which I'm guessing is running moves? Does that have something to do with whether or not a running wrestler will cause the "bump into" check to happen if a running wrestler makes contact with a frame that is current in the T state???? |
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Post by SonnyBone on Jul 1, 2020 7:13:42 GMT
I think that's it... the T flag seems to appear during parts where you would cause a collision simply by RUNNING into that frame, no attack needed. That's why it's showing up on standing frames. I just loaded up the HIP DROP to a downed opponent and there are 4 versions of the animation:
Attacker facing down, defender facing down.
Attacker facing down, defender facing up.
Attacker facing up, defender facing down.
Attacker facing up, defender facing up.
(then of course the left/right variations of those.
ONLY THE DEFENDER FACING DOWN version has the T flag frames on the attacker at the VERY END when transitioning back into a standing state. It's because the FACING UP version results in a pin loop state, and they go into form 101, which is the default FACE DOWN idle that kicks in the check for stamina/breath/recovery/etc to determine how long you stay down... so there's literally no standing animation included on those.
So that HAS to be it...
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Post by AtomicTurd on Jul 1, 2020 8:48:38 GMT
Getting a ton of crashes on MoveCraft on PS4. Simply loading 2 presets in the Form Library and previewing the animation has resulted in crashes. I'm up to 3 or 4 now. Anyone else? Gonna be impossible to do anything if this keeps happening. Yep, it's happened to me a few times now. And each time it does i tell myself to save regularly to avoid starting over...which i naturally don't... |
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Post by OrochiGeese on Jul 1, 2020 8:58:11 GMT
I think that's a great analysis and makes a ton of sense for the "T" flag. The attacker is standing but has either finished their attack animation or hasn't started it yet. The video said "Tackle" so I can only assume T = "Tickle Tackle" and this confusing flag is Spike's revenge for us not accepting Fire Pro Avatar 😭 Also, more good news is that JB explained the "Y" flag: OH! And I answered Geese's question about the "Y" flag on Twitter, but in case it'd help anyone else here that wouldn't see it there: Y = if that wrestler can be hit with a strike-type attack during that point of the animation. During grapples, you'll see Y will only be active for the attacker because they're the one you'd need to hit to break up the move. Also, the bit I mentioned about the Y flag only being on the attacker of a grapple isn't entirely accurate. Y can be set on the defender, but it's usually at the end of a move where they're still standing (i.e. grapple strikes that don't knock the opponent down). In those moves, you might have a few frames where the victim is still reeling during the "sell" animation where it's possible to hit them with a standing attack. |
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Post by Dawnbr3ak3r on Jul 1, 2020 10:06:08 GMT
The official Spike guide to Move Craft just kinda sucks.
It glosses over so many things to the point where I'm better off throwing stuff at a wall until something sticks.
Frustrating, really.
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Post by AtomicTurd on Jul 1, 2020 10:23:33 GMT
Just a thought:
If you only use existing moves and animations (for both attacker and defender) in a custom move does that mean that you don't need to amend them for different sized wrestlers?
I would have hoped that they would already be adjusted.
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